NewStats: 3,264,070 , 8,182,492 topics. Date: Monday, 09 June 2025 at 02:20 PM 1e4h4m

SirWere:
Why would I create such a universe? Because I can! I would create such a universe because It will surely lead to scientific progress and if I were a touch vain, to use it to brag about my prowess
Like I said before, I would have no choice but to give them free will for it is only that way that their lives are worth living, without it, they are not different from robots. And also, I have no "plans"! It's just gonna be fun to watch them progress, even if they annoy me sometimes

Good! ^

Which is supposed to serve my goals better?

Does giving of Freewill really makes business sense? Will it bring more returns on my interest?

Why should I sacrifice that much, pull that much risk at my own detriment?

I just wonder!

Won't robots serving my 'WILL' give me a 110% maximum return without hassles!

Why should 'I' give such to them?

Altruism?

It is easier saying such here, in real life, do we hate or love to be in control?

paulGrundy:




I have already provided the answer to your question.

Your answer stated what it will do to your creatures. That it will help 'them' explore....

But your reason why has not been addressed.

Eg:
Is it as a result of your interest or lack of it in them that will prompt such a gift even at the possibility of lost of control?

Goshen360:
I'll contribute in details when I have much time. However, the verse is talking to the Jewish apostates but it's not saying God will not forgive or the sacrifice of Christ didn't cover "deliberate or willful" sins.

Think about it, which sin that we commit is not involving your will or deliberation? Are you saying, someone who stole just suddenly found another person's item in his hands without a deliberate or wilful process? Or someone who committed adultery just suddenly found himself doing and then disappear? Or someone who lied never thought about it, just found himself lying?

It was written to Jewish community who AFTER the knowledge of Christ or truth (being the perfect sacrifice for sin or sin offering) BUT THEY ARE STILL OFFERING SACRIFICES FOR SIN....There remains no more sacrifice after the once and for all times Christ offered.

@Goshen, What are you unto with the above?

Why should giving of such a gift be an option to consider by you the giver?

paulGrundy:


Freewill would help them explore the world and discover things I never imagined.

Why will YOU want to give your creatures Freewill?
(not what it will do to them).

jayriginal:


If I did grant my creatures with freewill, I wouldn't punish them for choices they make.

Still haven't answered the question and why it is a better option for you.

SirWere:
Were I to create a universe in which personoid beings resembling me exist, I would of course have no choice but to "bless" them with the quality of free will, for such is the only way they can ever be differentiated from a random anima of moving atoms....



And before you use this analogy to explain the existence of God, I would also create enough food for them, take an active role in their lives and generally pop up in the sky once a while or create a phenomenon which defies their laws

And should you have a purpose for creating such a universe, explain why the giving of Freewill should be a process of attaining your goals absolutely.

Why should such a gift be part of your plans?

Why should giving of such a gift be more effective in attaining your goals compared to not giving?

jayriginal:
How can it be free will if you punish certain choices?

Well, the question is on you, will you endowed Your creatures with Freewill?

Why should that make sense to you?

Why would you set out on a seeming collision course?

Is such practical in our world today?

Why is doing such rational?

You have expressed your own wishes, but what will be your reasons for doing such?

There are aspects of the gift of Freewill you have not yet considered, how the knowledge that this creatures can and will turn against you is a possibility and the reason you will still proceed to endowed them all the same. Why?

In a world that is full of control freak, am still asking how rational is that?

SirWere:
of course......................................

Of course what?

Please, state your stand clearly and give your reasons for it.

paulGrundy:


By the way what happened to your other monicker BERNIMORE?


.

I Am Not Bernimore.

paulGrundy:



I will give them freewill.
.

If that is your take, why will you do such? Give Freewill?

I can't help imagining having my phone and wish to make a call and my phone wish for just games. lol. I wander what will become of that phone in no time. Seriously.

Thinking people feels it is irrational for you to design your phone to have another ideas from your intention for having a phone, hence,they say 'Freewill' is not what they think they will give.

What do think?
Will you give Freewill to your creatures if you have to decide on it?

marshalcarter:
That is why GOD is GOD and can never be a man.....he's a merciful GOD

Thank you for your comment.

Pls, endeavor to answer the question first. will you give Freewill or, you will not give Freewill to your creatures.

Thank you.

Peace.

Relate that to the one that gave humans Freewill and how we use it in relation to the one that gave us Freewill.

Yes, Think. If you create thinks, will you give them Freewill ?

Give them the ability to disobey you and insult you if they so wish, acting contrary. Will you build such a capacity into the things you create?

And why should you do such?

Richirich713:


Still never answer the question, how do u define honor? Is obey identical to honor?

Cuz jesus told us to honor him just like I honor the father, in order to do that I must no what honor means.

truthislight:


How do you practically show honor to Jesus christ with great respect without obeying Him ?

Answer please.

Richirich713:


I said:

Obeying some1 is PART of what we call respect, not obey means honor as if the are identical.



Yes it does answer the question, cuz if I truly respect jesus I wud obey his teachings cuz obeying wud be PART of respecting or honoring him.

BUT I also obey my boss at work but that does not mean I honor him.

How would u define honor ?

Cuz U clearly implied over nd over that to honor jesus means to obey jesus as if the two words of identical nd mean the same thing, since u denied that I wud like to see how u truely define honor or the Greek word Timao used in John 5:23



Actually it's time u start answering the question about what it's means to honor jesus just as u honor the father and not rob it off by changing the topic to Saul.

If u don't define honor as obey,why are u speaking so much about obeying ? I keep telling u obeying is not identical to honoring but u keep on and on about obey.

"That all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him" (John 5:12)

I honor jesus just like I honor the father, do u?

1cor. 4:6

Now, brothers, these things I have applied to myself and A·polʹlose for your good, that through us you may learn the rule: “Do not go beyond the things that are written,” so that you may not be puffed up with pride, favoring one against the other.
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Well then, there goes the difference between me and you. "we do not go beyond what is written".

I have shown you what the bible says on this issue of honoring Jesus. You want me to go beyond what is written and I say a big NO!

suite yourself, enjoy, indulge.

John 8:31

Then Jesus went on to say to the Jews who had believed him: “If you remain in my word, you are really my disciples"

John 15:10
If you observe my commandments, you will remain in my love, just as I have observed the commandments of the Father and remain in his love.

Richirich713:


Obeying some is PART of what we call respect, not obey means honor as if the are identical.

the above is not an answer to my question.

It is time for you to do justice on what you have been ing on here and you wish to rob it off just like that? No.

give details of how you do the below please:

truthislight:


How do you practically show honor to Jesus Christ with great respect without obeying Him ?

Answer please.

Richirich713:
"The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father" (John 22-23)

honor

noun
1)high respect; esteem.
2)a privilege.
3)a woman's chastity or her reputation for this.
4)an ace, king, queen, or jack.

verb
1)regard with great respect.
2)fulfill (an obligation) or keep (an agreement).

How do you practically show honor to Jesus christ with great respect without obeying Him ?

Answer please.

Richirich713:


You keep on with this false definition of honor, there are children who obey their parents around the world but still hate their parents.

Does that mean they honor them? No it only means they obey.

Some children even hated their parents so much they ended up killing them, but I'm sure u will still say that some of these children still honor their parents.

On the above ^^ statement.
I have not made any definition here. please, don't lie against me. Please. desist forthwith.

I have simply been showing up what the Bible says on obedience here, You on the other hand wants to use head knowledge.

See below what Jesus said about Obedience.

You have forgotten the Illustration that was made by Jesus himself of two children that was sent on an errand by their father. Maybe you are not aware of it for you to make the above statement.


Matt.21:28-31


What do you think? A man had two children. Going up to the first, he said, ‘Child, go work today in the vineyard.’ 29 In answer this one said, ‘I will not,’ but afterward, he felt regret and went out. 30 Approaching the second, he said the same. This one replied, ‘I will, Sir,’ but did not go out. 31 Which of the two did the will of his father?” They said: “The first.” Jesus said to them: “Truly I say to you that the tax collectors and the prostitutes are going ahead of you into the Kingdom of God.
................................................................

the first initially refused but later, subsequently obeyed and carried out the assignment.

While the second said he will go but later refuses to carry out the assignment.

Which of the two did Jesus said was the better?

What do you learn from the above illustration going by Jesus mind set when it comes to Obedience?

Richirich713:

Again obey doesn't mean honor? Use a dictionary if u in doubt

Neither does 'Honor' mean worship.

Richirich713:


Again obey doesn't mean honor? Use a dictionary if u in doubt

Eph.6:1,2

Children, be obedient to your parents in union with the Lord, for this is righteous. 2 “Honor your father and your mother” is the first command with a promise: 3 “That it may go well with youa and you may remain a long time on the earth.”
.........................................

Can honor and obedience be extricated? No. The two go hand in hand.

try separating them if you can.

Any attempt to such end will amount to lips service.

You cannot honor God without obeying him. God is not a kid that you give food.

Jeremiah 7:23

But I did give them this command: “Obey my voice, and I will become your God, and you will become my people. You must walk in all the way that I command, so that it may go well with you.
.............................................

Romans13:7

Render to all their dues: to the one who calls for the tax, the tax; to the one who calls for the tribute, the tribute; to the one who calls for fear, such fear; to the one who calls for honor, such honor.
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Mark 10:17-19

As he was going on his way, a man ran up and fell on his knees before him and put the question to him: “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit everlasting life?” 18 Jesus said to him: “Why do you call me good? Nobody is good except one, God.19 You know the commandments: ‘Do not murder,r do not commit adultery,s do not steal,t do not bear false witness,u do not defraud,v honor your father and your mother.’”
.................................


What we owe Yahweh and Jesus Christ today is to obey them.
Do you want to Honor them with Animal sacrifice?

"to obey is better than Sacrifice" the Bible says.

Richirich713:

I didn't ask if u obeyed him?
Honoring someone means much more then just obeying.

"To obey is better than sacrifice".
Ask Saul if in doubt.

Richirich713:

I didn't ask if u obeyed him?
Honoring someone means much more then just obeying.

"To obey is better than sacrifice".
Ask Saul if in doubt.

Richirich713:


Do u honor jesus just like u honor the father?

I obey the son just as i obey the father, but i worship only the only true God, the Father.

John 17:3
This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
.................................................................................................................................................................
Obeying Jesus christ leads to knowing the father and worshiping the father.


John 17:25-26New International Version (NIV)
25 “Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. 26 I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them.”
..................................................................................................................................................................................................
Jesus came to the world to lead us to the father.

John 17:6-8English Standard Version (ESV)
6 “I have manifested your name to the people whom you gave me out of the world. Yours they were, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your word. 7 Now they know that everything that you have given me is from you. 8 For I have given them the words that you gave me, and they have received them and have come to know in truth that I came from you; and they have believed that you sent me.

chuna1985:


I am not.

Lol. Ignorance is bliss.

plappville:


Honestly, its difficult for Trinitarian s to accept the simplicity of the bible. They have made things so hard that sometimes they find it hard to define the trinity. Role of each person. You are doing a great work though. All the same, we are all one in Christ. Since He didn't teach trinity himself. We have no curse for not following such doctrine.

I wish the issue is that simple, and the Almighty will accept it the way you see it.

John 17:3
This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
........................................

Is getting to know the only true God a function of believing things the way one sees it ? I don't know. If you get a wrong idea of someone, you will described the person wrongly. That to me is not how to 'know the only true God' that leads to eternal life.

1Tim. 2:34

This is fine and acceptable in the sight of our Savior, God, 4 whose will is that all sorts of people should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth.
.....................................

Will the Almighty bend to man's will or men should bend?

I believe that the best bet is lining ones way and believes to what Yahweh has said, "though all men be found a liar, let God be found true".

Richirich713:


The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father" (John 22-23)

Do u honor the Son just like u honor the father?

Either u do or either u consider the Son to be just a creation, nd there4 don't honor him like u honor the father.

1John 5:3
"This is what the love of God means: that we observe his commandment".


Matt. 15:8

"This people honor me with their lips, but their heart are far removed from me".

How should Jesus be honored?

Is it not by obaying his commands? how many of those calling him God do what Jesus says in the bible? with the proliferation of Trinitarian religion the world is getting more immoral and corrupt, is it the increased in way wardness the way to obay Jesus?

You think that Shouting "Jesus" for prosperity and selfish reasons means that is Honor to him. Smh.

Jesus is smarter than such.

you, cool down and search out what to Honor the son means, and see those obaying Jesus in its entirety.

Majority of those praying to Jesus sleep and wake in immorality, disobaying Jesus, telling themselves that they leave in "GRACE".

Take Note:
Matt. 15:8

"This people honor me with their lips, but their heart are far removed from me".

And

1John 5:3
"This is what the love of God means: that we observe his commandments".


John17:7,8

John 17:7-8

7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever you have given me are of yours.

8 For I have given to them the words which you have given me; and they have accepted them, and they have come to known surely that I came from you, and they have believed that you did send me.

nimat158:
wat giv u d assurance dat dey are muslims.ISLAM IS PEACE

Yeah! Denial denial denial, easy to deny.

All Koran adherants will easily and readily switched to the 'default mode' when they perceived pushed to the wall. The above^ statement is a statement of convenient when all seems fevourable to a so call liberal islamist/Muslim.

The default mode to violence is a constant, unless (s)he does not belief the Koran to be the word of God.

Richirich713:


"The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father" (John 22-23)

Does that shows that Jesus "demand" such honor or that he simply stated the fact of what the father has done?

Does that scripture in any way suggest that Jesus is in equality with the father?

Who assigned all judging to the son?

Does an equal assign responsibility to his equal?

Who wants all to honor the son? Jesus or the Father?=Father

Is this honor from the father to the son not what we have been talking about all along?

That Yahweh gave honor to David and also gave such honor to Jesus? Why are you going in circle?

Is it on such premise that you based your doctrine on?

What is the new thing that you have came up with now?

SMH seriously for you.

Richirich713:


And after all that smoke, didn't jesus say we 'must' honor him just like we honor the father ?