NewStats: 3,265,507 , 8,187,017 topics. Date: Sunday, 15 June 2025 at 12:14 PM 3q3j25

0temSapien:
Lol. When did Yahweh start to become God? The world has been in existence for 3billion+ years and Yahweh suddenly woke up to become its God just 3000years ago? That's weird!!!
I am here to make known the CREATOR of your god and no god can stop me, not even when Yahweh, Allah and thousands of their fellow religious gods are caged now.

See, everybody is seeing your lies. It can't sell anymore. I have been telling you that your mission is a failure!.

Jehovah Yahweh has always been. He was there in eternity past, and He is there now, and He will be there forever. But you, a mortal, will die!. And if you don't repent and accept Jesus Christ, hell fire is there too.

Hahaha... What is 3billion years in the eyes of the everlasting God?. O Otem, those devils have really deceived you.

Jesus Christ is your life!. Repent now!

johnw47:


Primesky said you are a devil/fallen angels advocate and spokes person

you cannot see anything properly otem, you have been blinded by your god satan:

2Co_4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

as to what evil you have comitted, here's just a bit:

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

What a pity!, and he doesn't seem to know it. Well, let's not call him a devil, I won't call him that, except the one who created him (Jehovah Yahweh) calls him that. He himself has been deceived by the devil. He is a fallen angels mouth piece, no doubt about that. He is spreading lies cooked from hell to deceive mankind.

Note that this Otem of a person was once a Christian, but he fell away!. Let us look at him with pity and take heed to ourselves too. The bible did warn us to watch lest we fall. Such has befallen this precious soul. At this stage, only the Almighty God, Jehovah Yahweh, can help and save him. I won't write him off yet. There's nothing God cannot do. But I will not fold my hands and watch him spew those forbidden lies and go unchecked. Lies must be challenged and put down!. We are the children of God, lies and darkness can not be around us comfortably, never!.

Riofidelio:
Hmmmmmmmm because you want to argue you're blinding yourself to the truth. Jesus said it plainly that NO MAN has gone to heaven before His arrival please it's NOT me who said that my friend,Jesus as in JESUS did! I only tried to explain what He meant, the Bible is clear on this issue that flesh and blood can't go to heaven because God didn't make man for heavenly life,then the case of been born again,then the case of been tranformed to spirit,then John(the baptist)is not one of them while all faithful men prior to John are not privileged to be in that group,they're going to rule with Jesus who taught them how to rule,the Apostles are the foundation of the city because going to heaven starts from them. But you blocked your heart to all these verses just to keep arguing,well it's ok my friend after enough evidence to establish facts we're not to continue arguing uneccesarily goodbye! Philippians 2:14 1Timothy 6:4

What on earth?!. Why have you decided to make the bible a lie!.

The truth here is that you're not a Christian, so there's no way we can agree on these points.

All the scriptures I gave to you were not enough for you, instead you misquote, misinterprete and make the bible a lie. By pointing those things in the bible and claiming that they are not so, you have made the word of God a lie. Let God be true and every man a liar!.

Watch Tower modified the scriptures to suit itself by misinterpreting the scriptures. Who and who translated your version of scriptures?. How much of the Greek language and its application do they know. These questions are simple but very salient.

Wake up my brother, Let's not defend religion, instead let's uphold the word of God in truth.

OneJ:


Primesky, there are over 13 different Bible translations ( including one of the oldest Bible known to man, the 2nd Century Sahidic Coptic Bible) which reads : " a god was the word" or "the word was a god". They followed what's in the Greek manuscript.

Please find & read this Thread "Is the Greek manuscript of John 1:1 proof of Trinity?".

Acts 28:6 & John 1:1 (KJV) are very similar in Greek grammar & in the manuscript "god" is there in small letters. Una agree say na "a god" in Acts28:6 as una see am for the manuscript but when una see John 1:1 ,una come change small letter "god" wey dey manuscript to big letter "God" wey no dey manuscript.
Primesky, Is that not fraudulent?
Primesky, answer this question with your church mind: in English does "god" & "God" have the same meaning?
Una dey forge 1John5:7 & 1tim 3:16 (KJV) ,una go forge "Godhead" put for KJV where as the older manuscripts says "divine". Una still forge "I am" put for Hebrew scriptures where as "I am" no dey any Hebrew scripture manuscript. Trinity is a confirmed fallacy. Una no dey tire to twist God's word to defend una lie lie. Jesus is the son of God. No two ways about it.

That ex-JW wey U dey follow up & down online, U dey fear to ask am to tell U why JW drive am komot ? He is an unrepentant wrongdoer. I know him type. No atom of truth dey dia mouth.

Hmm... Very interesting!. Are these things you know for yourself or are they the things you were told?.

Well, the simple truth is, you're not a Christian!. That explains why you don't believe the bible. It is natural that you would believe what your religion (Jehovah witnesses or watch tower ) tells you.

But you need to do a thorough research now about what you think is truth, so that you don't realise the truth too late. Saying Jesus is the son of God does not make you an absolute believer in Him.

Now because someone among you have seen the lies and deceptions you guys have been teaching for years, and decided to leave, he is now an unrepentant wrongdoer?. I only wish many persons will see this discussions and see the truth for themselves.

The truth remains that the top leaders and founders of the New world Translation bible translated it to suit their doctrine and believe, which is absolutely contrary to the truth of God's word.

Once again my dear, with love and respect, I ask you to do a thorough research yourself and know the real Jesus Christ. Shalom.

Riofidelio:
#Primesky. The Bible is a book of sacred secrets and it's only true Christians that can help you to know those secrets. that before Jesus there has never been a time Israelites have to cross their boundary to preach and teach other nations God's word.Matthew 28:19,20 Jesus commissioned this work not for all Jews or Samaritans of His time but for HUMBLE ones amongst them,so it's just those few Christians that understood God's word,whereas the scriptures has been with the nation right from the time of Moses! Whenever Jesus is talking,arrogant Jews do come to debunk His teachings because Jesus often say things that ordinarily if you read from the Bible without listening to him you'll have a different picture. An example is about Enoch and Elijah,the scriptures said Enoch was taken and Elijah went to heaven,but Jesus said "no man has ascended to heaven before" John 3:13 There is no other way for stubborn Jews than to listen and learn from God's son but instead they kept arguing with Him. It was much later that even the Apostles after their anointing with the holy spirit could grasp that for anyone to enter heaven such a person MUST BE BORN AGAIN! Now God's spirit has not been poured until Jesus' sacrifice was taken to God in heaven,therefore it's impossible for any human to ascend to heaven before then! Ecclesiates 3:19-22 So if a true Christian is preaching and teaching,you'll learn about so many hidden secrets that you can't notice all by yourself while reading the scriptures except if you listen to a TRUE Christian(taught by Jesus' group to help you grasp the sacred secrets)

I don't know what else to say or do my dear to let you know that your position is contrary to the bible!. You said Elijah and Enoch didn't go to heaven, but the bible never said so. Look at this below.

2 Kings 2:11 And it came to , as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

The bible said Elijah was taken up into heaven!. Wonderful!. Is the bible lying or is Jesus Christ lying?. You're misinterpreting the word of God. Get the contest. Somebody put it rightly. Read this point below

In John 3:13 Jesus says to Nicodemus, “No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven–the Son of Man.” This verse is somewhat difficult to interpret and is often misunderstood. It is also frequently used by those who want to find contradictions in the Bible.

We must keep the verse in context. In verses 10-12, especially, we see that Jesus is talking about His authority and the validity of His teaching. Jesus tells Nicodemus that He has been teaching what He knew firsthand: “We speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen” (verse 11). Then, in verse 13 Jesus explains why He is uniquely qualified to teach of the kingdom of God—namely, because He alone came down from heaven and possesses the knowledge to teach people about heaven. Jesus alone has seen the Father, and He alone is qualified to declare God and make Him known (John 1:18).

The gist of John 3:13 is this: “None of your earthly teachers can really teach you about heaven, because none of them have actually been there. However, I have been there. In fact, it is My home. I have come to you from heaven, and I have brought with Me experiential knowledge of that place. My testimony carries weight; I can tell you the truth about salvation.” The NLT brings out the meaning well: “No one has ever gone to heaven and returned. But the Son of Man has come down from heaven.”

In claiming a heavenly abode, Jesus was claiming deity. Nicodemus himself had already itted that Jesus was extraordinary when he said, “We know you are a teacher who has come from God” (verse 2).

Jesus was not teaching that no one had ever gone to heaven before. Obviously, the Old Testament saints had gone to heaven (or paradise) when they died (Mark 12:26-27), and Enoch and Elijah had been taken there without dying (Genesis 5:24; Hebrews 11:5; 2 Kings 2:11). Rather, He was teaching that, of all rabbis, He had the best credentials. Jesus has direct with heaven; He is an expert on the subject.

I pray the Lord will help you to understand. The bible does not contradict itself. It's just that men just assume they understand or there is a deliberate act to deceive someone else. The bible is the word of God. It has no lies or contradictions. Understand the context and applications. By the way, without the Holy Spirit guiding you, you can never truly understand it.

Please, tell me who are this special group of Jesus that teaches the secret of God's word?. Because I know that no body or group of persons can completely teach the bible without the Holy Spirit. It has nothing to do with a special group. The word of God is authority, yes we have pastors and teachers, but ultimately, we depend on the Holy Spirit.

John 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

OneJ:


U said "Jesus was not created. He was begotten". Primesky ,U are confused. Man is the image of God,same as Jesus is the image of the same God. He is the firstborn of creation. Colossians 1:15. Pls, quarrel with your Bible. Trinity is built on the falsified insertion of "I am" into Hebrew scriptures(Exodus 3:14. Rather, " I will become what will become.". Every Jew or Israeli knows "I am" is a fraud.) The term "I am" does not exist in Hebrew because their language has no present tense.
Animals & man have the breath of life which the Bible refers to as "spirit".(Eccl3:18-21. James2:26. Ps104:29).It's not rocket science. (the context determines the meaning. At times, the term 'spirit' can also refers to emotions of anger, anxiety or joy. eg my spirit is anxious. Its does not mean that a separate invisible entity in me is anxious. ). The story of Lazarus & rich man is a parable. It NEVER happened in real life. Its a lesson to teach us that no condition is permanent. Jesus said Abraham, David etc never went to heaven. Acts2:31-34. John 3:13. Is Christ a liar? He said the dead are in the grave awaiting the resurrection ( John 5:28,29. Acts24:15. John11:11-14,20-39, Martha confirmed it,she told Jesus, "I know he (Lazarus) will rise in the resurrection on the last day." God's kingdom is a government ruled by king Jesus. Have U ever seen a government where every citizen occupied the throne? Therefore, Christ the king has 144,000 co-rulers in heaven to rule with him for 1000 years. Christ rulership would benefit millions of righteous,earthly citizens of Gods kingdom . (Daniel 2:44. 2pet3:13. Rev14:1-3. Rev 20:4,5. Matt5:3,5.). Only God chooses who goes to heaven or live forever on the forthcoming paradise earth.

What a pity!. Who is is confused my brother?. With this mindset of yours, you can never learn. What is the meaning of begotten in the original contest of the Greek language from which that age was translated?. Can you find out and stop these lies.

You guys twist the scriptures to suit you, and make the word of God a lie. Look at what what your version of the bible says in comparison with what other versions says in John chapter one.

John 1:1 NWT In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.
- Jehovah Witness Bible

Really?!, the word was a god?. Like seriously?, is that the way it is?.

John 1:1 KJV In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.- Christian Bible

This is what you will find in almost all other version of the bible. So why is yours different?.

This is just one of those falsehood you've been taught. So much attempt to deny the diety of Jesus Christ. Your religion went as far as saying Jesus Christ is angel Michael. With all these, it becomes difficult for you to accept the truth. I will urge and beg you to do a thorough study, and know the true Jesus Christ.

To think that you will see the verdict of the Bible and still maintain your position is staggeringly shocking!. Wait, do you even read my post?. Whatever is not in your new world translation bible is fake, is that so?.

You can choose to believe whatever you believe. The only falsifiers of scriptures I have ever seen so far are from the Jehovah witnesses. You the are not even aware what your chief slaves have done.

You guys believe that your version is the only correct version of scripture, and so even when the truth is presented to you, you will twist it and deny an obvious truth. But no matter how you twist it, know that you will never be able to undo the truth.

If you like remain on earth, but when Jesus comes, I will go with Him to heaven, that's His promise and no man nor angel can tell me otherwise and I believe. How can you be denying an open truth. Lord please have mercy!.

If you want to know about the religion you're in, follow this man on YouTube (Jwtruthministry). He is a former member of your religion, he will show you some hidden and secret things about your religion, you're not aware of. Let it not be like I said it. Go search it out yourself.

I wish you repent and accept Jesus Christ as Lord and personal saviour. Shalom.

Riofidelio:
You only need humility to read, listen, meditate and pray earnestly for the wisdom of God because if not you can't grasp anything worthwhile. First let me remind you that Jesus said He did not come for every nation but only for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.Matthew 10:6,15:24 Yet at John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so love the world.....sent HIS only begotten son....but have everlasting life" Can you explain why the same Jesus made these two contrary statements? Secondly you quoted 1Samuel,hmmmmmmmm well that's the difference between a Christian(Someone who can adequately explain what the Bible says) and a Churchgoer. Do you think Samuel (a true servant of God) who led the campaign to drive away all the witches and sorcerers and also refused to see Saul again till his death could be forced by a "witch" to come and speak to the same Saul? Or do you think it's God that releases or permits dead Samuel to do so? Well that's where discernment comes in(Proverbs 2:1-5) so let me help you out.That in fact was a DEMON posing and speaking like Samuel not the same Samuel! God's word clearly says the living they know they'll die but the dead knows NOTHING at all,and all their memories is gone,they have NOTHING to do with the living any more! Ecclesiastes 9:5,6 So it's DEMONS putting on dead human's form to discredit God's word(Bible),the dead can't harm nor help the living!

You do not really understand the world you live in my dear. Look at the issue of Samuel. It's true that the devil can manipulate and deceive people with the images of the dead, that's why God forbids us from doing that
(consulting the dead) because we wouldn't know which is which. The bible says it was Samuel and you're saying it wasn't him. Read this ages below carefully.

1 Samuel 28:15 [b]And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.

28:16 Then said Samuel, Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the LORD is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy?

28:17 And the LORD hath done to him, as he spake by me: for the LORD hath rent the kingdom out of thine hand, and given it to thy neighbour, even to David:

28:18 Because thou obeyedst not the voice of the LORD, nor executedst his fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore hath the LORD done this thing unto thee this day.

28:19 Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the LORD also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines.[/b]

The bible says it was Samuel, and Samuel even repeated what he had told Saul while he was still alive. If the bible says it was Samuel, when in fact it wasn't him, then the bible lied!, and shouldn't be trusted. But the bible can't lie!. If it wasn't the spirit of Samuel, the bible would have told us. Stop assuming. It's true the devil can deceive through such means, that's why God forbids it. But this case is clear. Again the age you're quoting about the dead knowing nothing after death, is totally out of context. I gave you some names before, and you haven't disproved it.

Tell me about Father Abraham talking to the Richman after death?. How did he know about the lifestyle of the Richman on earth?.

Tell me about Moses and Elijah talking with Jesus during the configuration?. Where did they come from?.

Tell me about the spirits of the Saints coming out of their graves and appearing to people after the death of Jesus Christ?.


About Jesus saying he was sent to the lost sheep of Israel. Hmm... You misunderstand the scriptures!. Have you never read that salvation is from the jews?. As at the time Jesus made that statement, He was not yet crucified, so how can the gentiles be engrafted into the promise of God to Abraham?. Jesus came to save all mankind beginning first with the jews, but they rejected it, so he turned to the gentiles. But it was all God's plan right from the beginning. We become spiritual Israelites by believing in Christ Jesus. Jesus didn't give so much attention to the gentiles while He was still alive as much as He did to the jews because He was not yet lifted up. what He said, 'if I be lifted up, I will draw all men unto my self'.
Did you at all think that heaven is only for the jews or that we the gentiles are second class believers?. No my dear. Now see what Jesus said below.

Matthew 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


Who are these many?, from where and where?. These are obviously gentiles who ordinarily are not supposed to be part of the promise. But because of Jesus, are now part of it. God said to Abraham that by thy seed shall all the families of the world be blessed. Who or what is the seed of Abraham. God was clearly talking about Jesus Christ.

From the age above, the kingdom these people will be gathered together with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, is the kingdom of heaven!. It's very clear. So please understand the context of the scriptures. God bless you.

Riofidelio:
They are simply those whose minds were filled with the teachings of Christ so at death nothing survives them than those useful memories that God kept in rebembrance of them.They're Born Again Christians so God has a different plan for them apart from other faithful servant who never got baptized in the SPIRIT,their own resurrection takes place not bodily anymore because they shall be resurrected as spirit beings,what makes them the same personalities are the "recorded information" they kept:their love,their hatred,their motives and all other feelings has totally become the same as that of Jesus Christ: So God has their names written due to their good works. Malachi 3:16 That's why it's their SOULS that could be seen in a revelation of what will happen in the future by a Born again Christian who eventually is also one of them (John).Revelation 20:4 compared to verse 15 They're those that will be trsnsformed into spirit beings to live as kings and priests and rule with Jesus for the 1000 years while all other faithful humans have the hope of living on earth forever as originally planned by God! Revelations 14:6 Concerning those 144,000 born agains Jesus said "John the baptist is lesser than them" why? Because John the baptist never got baptized in the spirit so he is not going to heaven but will be resurrected in the body just like other ancient faithful men! Matthew 11:11 but John is greater than all those faithful men prior to him because he lived as a contemporary of Jesus,saw Him,baptized Him and even directed his own immediate followers to follow Him!

Wow!. See, I sincerely respect you. But you see, your positions have obvious contradictions to what the bible teaches. I can understand that you're a Jehovah witness, and you guys are nice people but there are obvious misinterpretations from you guys, may be as a result of using your own version of the bible. Below are undeniable facts from the scriptures.

1. We will resurrect with a body, just as Jesus rose with a body. However, that body will be a glorified body or say, immortal.

1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

2. After death, only the body dies. The spirit and soul of the dead is both alive and conscious somewhere, until the final judgment.

1 Samuel 28:15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.

28:16 Then said Samuel, Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the LORD is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy?


Here we see that though Samuel was already dead and buried, his spirit was still called out by the woman with familiar spirits, although God forbids us from doing this. Samuel came up and told Saul what was going to happen! Which means, though he was dead, his spirit was still very much alive and conscious!.

Here is another example.

Luke 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

Luke 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

Here we see Father Abraham, who has been long dead and buried, speaking to the spirit of the rich man, mere consciousness can't do that. This is a conscious living person talking and even describing the kind of life the richman had lived while he was still alive in the body in the world.

Again, I will ask you. During the transfiguration, where did Moses and Elijah come from?. Were they mere 'recorded information'?.

3. All true believers in Jesus Christ, will finally go to heaven. This is the promise of God. Heaven is not meant for only 144,000 persons.

John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

Jesus prayed that all those who believe in Him will be where He is to see His glory. So where is Jesus, heaven or earth?, and how can we who believe in Him see His glory, if we don't go to heaven?!.
Here is another one.

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Is this promise above by Jesus Christ himself a lie?.

Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

The age above talks about a great multitude which no man can number, obviously that's not 144,000. At least 144,000 can easily be numbered by anybody. And these people came from all over the world. And this people stood before the throne. Is this not the throne of God?. So where is this throne, in heaven or on earth?.

1 Corinthians 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

I don't know about you, but for me, I believe the words and promises of Jesus Christ, that He will go and prepare a place for me, and after that, He will come again and take me to be with Him where He is!. That's in the bible and it's incontrovertible!.

Riofidelio:
They are simply those whose minds were filled with the teachings of Christ so at death nothing survives them than those useful memories that God kept in rebembrance of them.They're Born Again Christians so God has a different plan for them apart from other faithful servant who never got baptized in the SPIRIT,their own resurrection takes place not bodily anymore because they shall be resurrected as spirit beings,what makes them the same personalities are the "recorded information" they kept:their love,their hatred,their motives and all other feelings has totally become the same as that of Jesus Christ: So God has their names written due to their good works. Malachi 3:16 That's why it's their SOULS that could be seen in a revelation of what will happen in the future by a Born again Christian who eventually is also one of them (John).Revelation 20:4 compared to verse 15 They're those that will be trsnsformed into spirit beings to live as kings and priests and rule with Jesus for the 1000 years while all other faithful humans have the hope of living on earth forever as originally planned by God! Revelations 14:6 Concerning those 144,000 born agains Jesus said "John the baptist is lesser than them" why? Because John the baptist never got baptized in the spirit so he is not going to heaven but will be resurrected in the body just like other ancient faithful men! Matthew 11:11 but John is greater than all those faithful men prior to him because he lived as a contemporary of Jesus,saw Him,baptized Him and even directed his own immediate followers to follow Him!

Wow!. See, I sincerely respect you. But you see, your positions have obvious contradictions to what the bible teaches. I can understand that you're a Jehovah witness, and you guys are nice people but there obvious misinterpretations from you guys, may be as a result of using your own version of the bible. Below are undeniable fact from the scriptures.

1. We will resurrect with a body, just as Jesus rose with a body. However, that body will be a glorified body or say, immortal.

1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

2. After death, only the body dies. The spirit and soul of the dead is both alive and conscious somewhere, until the final judgment.

dalaman:


Where are the historical evidence that show that the exodus as reported in the bible is true?

The bible, but will you believe it. How can you believe what you choose to be averse to?. But the truth remains regardless.

Riofidelio:
Please your last sentence leads to a question,can you plainly explain what RESURRECTION means? I asked this question to get what you had in mind with the term AFTERLIFE because i can't find it in my own copy of the Bible but i can see resurrection!

Well, that's what I mean. Resurrection.

Do you believe in the resurrection?. When we resurrect, where will we be and what kind of body will we have?.

Riofidelio:
Well it's a pity that you only want to stick to the popular ideology in your locality but my friend if you must know animals have both BODY(the physical formation for identity which deteroriates at death and return to dust) SOUL(that innate tendency to store information) and SPIRIT(the breath of life God blew into the nostril of all creatures to sustain the life force in them) at death the only thing that comes out is the spirit(breath) because it's the ACTIVE FORCE keeping creatures alive,so both body and soul DIES! It's like you agreed with the first two so you can read to confirm that animals have spirit in Ecclesiastes 3:18-20 Please stop arguing against God's word out of ignorance,the Bible clearly said all creatures have just the same spirit,for easier understanding your think about your tv set,radio,fan,refridgerator,air conditioner and other electronic devices all have different functions but when there is no electricity to power it they're all useless,the same could be said of the spirit were referring to on this matter it totally differ from ANGELS who are separate unseen intelligent creatures!God bless you.

Animals have body and souls. They however do not have spirit like man does. What they have is the spirit of life, which gives them life!. Please understand the difference.

You guys keep quoting Ecclesiastes 3:18-20,but misinterprete it. What gives life to the 'body'?. It's the spirit of life from God, whether is animal or man, the 'body' survives by God's spirit. When the body dies, it must turn to dust, but the spirit and soul continues to live. This is the one who will face divine judgement.

The Hebrew word, Ruwach is used to designate God’s Spirit in the Old Testament, and sometimes is also used to designate man’s spirit. However, when God breathed life into the first man Adam, a different word is used, which is nashamah. This word is used in association with giving life to a human soul.

When God created the first Adam, He breathed into him the “breath of life” and Adam became a living soul (Genesis 2:7).

And so it is written, the first Adam was made a living soul. The last Adam was made a quickening - (Greek, zoopoieo- life giving-) Spirit - I Corinthians 15:45.
For as the Father has life in Himself: so hath He given to the Son to have life in Himself - John 5:26.

Well, the truth is you're actually contradicting God's word, by suggesting that after death, both soul and spirit dies or vanishes, which is to say, nothing remains of the man?. Isn't this your position?. But you clearly are wrong!. Simply because you do not understand the application of the words.

When spirit is used in the bible, it could mean different things given the context, know that the bible was translated. For instance, the English has love as a word but the Greek has four different words for love which is applied in different context.

Isaiah 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

From the above scripture, you see another use of spirit. This is not mere breath or wind.

Proverbs 18:14 The spirit of a man will sustain his infirmity; but a wounded spirit who can bear?

Proverbs 20:27 The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly.


Here, there's a clear distinction between the spirit of man and the spirit of God. This spirit is a personality, who is capable of doing something as can be seen above. And spirits don't die like the flesh die.


Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Again, here we see souls as entities that continues to live after death. From the above, you see the souls of men who had been murdered, come back to life?. So according to you, if the soul is a mere recorder or center point of emotions which just vanishes after death, how come the souls of the murdered lived and reigned?.

OneJ:

U said "animals don't have souls & spirit" .Na big lie ooo. The spirit refers to d breathe of life. Spirit is life-giving. (Eccl3 :19,20. James 2:26).. U guys confuse yourselves about understanding of the phrase. "image of God". It simply means that only Adam possessed God-given powers of superior intelligence (which other animals don't have.) for man to have dominion over other animals. ( Gen1:26-28). Seth was in the likeness of Adam ,his father. (Gen5:3).
(Adam was in the image of God just as Jesus was in the image of the invisible God. Therefore, Jesus is the first born of creation. Colossians1:15. He was created. Yes !!!)
Man is never a spirit because "flesh & blood can not inherit the kingdom of God in heaven. Flesh(man) gives birth to flesh(man). Spirit gives birth to spirit "(john3 :5,6. 1Cor15: 40. Man is a fleshly entity. Angels are spirit entities. Pls don't get it twisted.

I will strongly disagree with you dear. Plants have only bodies. Animals have bodies and souls. Man is higher, he has body, soul and his own spirit, which is different from the Spirit of life which gives him life.

Man is primarily a Spirit who has a soul and dwells in a body. Don't get confused please.

You're confusing the spirit of God and man, with the spirit of life. Let's look at the application.

The Hebrew word, Ruwach is used to designate God’s Spirit in the Old Testament, and sometimes is also used to designate man’s spirit. However, when God breathed life into the first man Adam, a different word is used, which is nashamah. This word is used in association with giving life to a human soul, like wise animal souls. It is the spirit of life.

When God created the first Adam, He breathed into him the “breath of life” and Adam became a living soul (Genesis 2:7).

And so it is written, the first Adam was made a living soul. The last Adam was made a quickening - (Greek, zoopoieo- life giving-) Spirit - I Corinthians 15:45.
For as the Father has life in Himself: so hath He given to the Son to have life in Himself - John 5:26.

Jesus was not created, He was begotten!. From your point of view, I see you as one of those who don't believe in the afterlife, am I correct?.

0temSapien:
This is the funniest thing I've ever read. How can you logically present these things you are affirming here?

So if conscience can be used to judge people earlier, what then is the need for fictitious Jesus? So it means that the people who at this time do not believe in fictitious Jesus will still make Christian's heaven too, as long as they follow their conscience. Lol.

How do you know that I am a devil? What evil have I committed? This is a false allegation.

If you're not for Christ, then you're an Antichrist!. The Antichrists are of the devil!.

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Everyone has heard this gospel including you. If you claim ignorance of good and evil, your conscience will testify against you. But without the justification of Christ, you can by no means enter heaven. From the age above, it's clear that after death, Jesus preached to the spirits in prison, who were once disobedient as far back as the beginning. You can't fault the scriptures.

NPComplete:


What sort of moronic nonsense did I just read?
The present-day Egyptians are not the same as the ancient ones. Present-day Egyptians are Arabs. And they got that land by conquest. Nothing in the real history of ancient Egyptians talks about any exodus. Not their hieroglyphs, nor their pyramids, nor their tombs. Not in the great statues of Ozymandias or treasure filled tomb of Tuthankamun. So what is your point?
Even educated Jewish historians believe the story is a fable. Their have found no archeological evidence for any of the horseshit religious people have been peddling about the events.

So because some dumb Arabs decided to sue some Jews for folktales both of them agree on, that makes the story true, right?

Sorry sir. I think you need to research further. The truth can't be buried nor denied. There will always be nay sayers.

Peacefullove:


Don't put ropes in your legs while trying to defend a scam.

The child is a Creation. Or you want to tell me every human being given birth to are not Creations?



tell us that different manner



Isaac was a begotten son too , I guess he wasn't created ?

You just dig more complications for yourself



Are you aware Isaac is also n begotten son.

Is Isaac a Creation ?



Was Isaac brought into existence in a manner different from other Sons of Abraham ?

The bold defeat your first assumption of different manner .

Oh Lord!. You keep shifting post and you claim wisdom right?. When we talk about God, you will jump and come down to man's level, just confusing yourself.

Every human being is a creation. But who were we talking about?. Was it human being or Jesus Christ?.

No man can say his son or child is created, he will say begotten because the child came out directly from him!

The same way it applies to Jesus Christ and God the Father. See how you're trying to twist this one as well.

I have bursted your bubble of spirit and breath, in which you misquoted strong's dictionary all in a bid to disprove the truth. Now you've come with another tactics of switching the persons involved from God to man.

It's very clear, you're not here to know, rather to prove a point. And you have failed in every attempt. Some of your assumptions have turned up to be lies, but you're still pressing on with it. This discussion is not edifying, rather it has become an argument of wit. Sorry, I won't indulge you anymore. Keep shifting post.

My position is summarised in the verse below.

John 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Peacefullove:


that you saw breath doesn't mean Spirit is wrong ... Next time, u research matter's before u conclude. The original word is ruach. Check strong concordance of Bible word's


7307. ruach ►
Strong's Concordance
ruach: breath, wind, spirit
Original Word: ר֫וּחַ
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: ruach
Phonetic Spelling: (roo'-akh)
Short Definition: spirit


Will you still deny ?

Really?, that your application of spirit is wrong. Lord have mercy!. See don't work yourself trying to disprove trinity, OK?. Even the strong's dictionary you consulted, you didn't apply it correctly. The word is used in different context, but you didn't see that one. Now go back to your strong dictionary, where you copied the above definition of breath, go down to the 'd' section/part, you will see this.

d. it departs at death: Psalm 78:39 (Dr a wind that eth away 2e); חַיֵּי רוּחִי Isaiah 38:16 (Di principle of life), Psalm 146:4; [b]especially Psalm 104:29; Psalm 104:30; [/b]Job 17:1; Job 34:14 (compare Job 34:15), Isaiah 57:16; Ecclesiastes 8:8 (twice in verse) (wind Wild); אֵינְךָ יוֺדֵעַ מַהדֶּֿרֶךְ הָרוּחַ Ecclesiastes 11:5, compare Ecclesiastes 3:21; over ag. הָרוּחַ תָּשׁוּב אֶלהָֿאֱלֹהִים אֲשֶׁר נְתָנָהּ Ecclesiastes 12:7; בְּיָָֽדְךָ אַפְקִיד רוּחִי Psalm 31:6.

Now take a look at the bolded above, the very scripture you quoted to your claim about spirit and breath, notice that strong describes it as a wind that eth away, and even went ahead to say especially that very scripture you quoted!. Hahaha.. Next time do a thorough job before you accuse somebody. How many times will I burst your bubble?.

You know what, I will leave you here, because you're just looking for a way to disprove the obvious reality, and not to learn. So the argument is really not edifying.

Peacefullove:


You would have done better, if you think am wrong he was called Son of God because he was created. By explaining why he was called son of God , just like the angels

Tell this thread why Jesus is called " Son of God ?

My dear Jesus was never created. He is the first born of all creation of God. Firstborn here is even different from what you know it to be. The original word used to describe Jesus Christ in the test is 'prototokos'. I suggest you read it up and see for yourself. He was the very beginning of all creation not one of them. Jesus is the visible image of God.

Hebrews 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Do we now start probing the meaning of Son in Hebrew and Greek to know what they actually connote?. Can you tell me that the child of a man is created?. God brought Jesus forth in a different manner from the way other creatures, angels and men came about. It's never the same. That's why the term begotten only applies to Jesus Christ and no body else. Oh English language will not allow us. The word love for example, has four different other words in Greek. You must understand the particular one used to comprehend the meaning in English. But that aside, a begotten son can not also be a created son.

CharlyG1:


You're most welcome Primesky. Glory to God.

We're glad the thread is a huge blessing to you and others. I pray for you, that you will continue to abide in the Lord.


And you will overcome the power of the enemy that pulls you back in your life. In Jesus Name.. Amen

Amen!. Thanks so much bro.

Peacefullove:


Psalm 104 vs 29

You hide Your face, they are dismayed; You take away their spirit, they expire And return to their dust.

There it is in HD , Animals have spirit.

Do they have soul ?

and the third part of the creatures having souls died in the sea; . Revelation 8 vs 9


So can you now see why your analogy lacks substance . Failed effort at proving Trinity

Oh wow, interesting!. So in a bid to discredit me, you removed breath and put spirit, hahaha... Oh sorry, maybe there's another version of bible you're using. But I've tried to see. This is what I found below.

Psalms 104:29- KJV. Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, [/b]they die, and return to their dust.

Psalm 104 Vs 29 (NIV) When you hide your face,
they are terrified;
[b]when you take away their breath,
they die and return to the dust.

Psalm 104 :29 7(NLT) But if you turn away from them, they panic. When you take away their breath, they die and turn again to dust.

Psalm 104:29 (Amp) You hide Your face, they are dismayed; You take away their breath, they die And return to their dust.

Are you going to now tell me spirit and breath are the same?. Another failed attempt at denying trinity

For your information, animals don't have both souls and spirits as men do because they were not created in the image of God. They have souls but not spirit. Only man has both body, soul and spirit. So stop trying so hard to hide the truth by quoting what I don't know.

Peacefullove:


Your bible said the one God is the Father . Is the father composed of tree personalities ? This thing is very simple



This doesn't make sense, Unless you want to it even animals are made in the image of God. ( see my first post)




Word OF who ? Himself ?




Yahweh is the creator , Jesus acknowledged - Matthew 19 vs 4-6.

Even Jesus was created as indicated in the word , " Son OF God " , likewise the Angel's are Also given that name. If you don't agree, be bold enough to tell us why Jesus and the Angela are all sons of God ?

Hahaha... Why are you avoiding my question?, do you have spirit, soul and body?. Yes or no!.

Where in the bible is it stated that animals have souls and spirits, please show me.

Where in the bible did it tell you that Jesus was created?. I will gladly appreciate it if you can point that out. So being called son of God now means He was created?.

With all you've said, can you read the ages below and explain them. Thanks.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Here God was speaking and creation was happening. What was God speaking?.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Very well, God created all things, here we're told the Word was with God and the Word was God, then that all things were made by him!. Do we have two Gods here?, no!.

I want to ask you again. Are you a different person from your word?. Can your word exist without you?. Does your word know anything at all of its ownself?. Does your word go anywhere it likes if you don't direct it there?.

Please answer the above questions?.


Colossians 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

So, tell me what's happening here.
Because he was born as a human and was in the form of man, He did everything not to glorify himself in the flesh. Now see what He (Jesus) said about himself.

Revelation 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

Who said the above?. Lets see again.

Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

The first and the last is the same one who died and rose again. Is that difficult to understand?.

Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.


Can we have two first and last, who is equally the only God?. Seek the Holy Spirit to guide you. This thing is open for you to see.

Peacefullove:


hahahaha all this just to prove your trinity , You don't know how ignorant you sound with this analogy, your analogy is dead on arrival


So you are telling us Animals are Made in the image of God too? Soooo funny

Are you not aware they have spirit and are souls according to your Bible . ?

Hmm... Has it degenerated into mockery now?. Where in the bible did you see that animals have souls and spirit. Please, if you don't know it, don't assume!.

Yes, my analogy will sound ignorant to you because you don't know it, and you don't act like you want to know.

Meanwhile, you said the bible said animals have souls and spirits. Please, you who know the scriptures very well, point that verse or verses for me because I don't know. Thanks

Peacefullove:


Primesky why , go study your holy book

Not according to your bible, there is one God, The Father . 1 Corinth 8 vs 6

Is the father composed of three personalities ?



Peacefulove is one single personality . not 3 persons in one .



Son of God. Says John 3 vs 16

Now why is he called son of God ? Please I need a response

Peacefullove, I have also told you, that there's only one God. I am not, and I have not said there are more than one God. Please don't misunderstand me.

1. Peacefullove, do you have a body, a soul and a spirit?

2. Was Jesus ever called the word of God in the bible?.

3. Who created the Universe and everything in it, according to the bible?.

Thanks CharlyG1fora great work you're doing here. I found this thread since March, and decided to go through all the post one after the other, and I must confess its been a great spiritual journey. May God increase, bless and keep you.

For all of you God have used in one way or the other to bless me, thank you.

Thanks everyone for your contributions. God has really used this thread to bless lives. God bless all of you.

Thanks CharlyG1 for a great work you're doing here. I found this thread since March 2018, and decided to go through all the posts one after the other, and I must confess its been a great spiritual journey. May God increase, bless and keep you.

Thanks Sis. Anas09 and all others who helped through the rough periods of assault.

Thanks everyone for your contributions. God has really used this thread to bless lives. God bless all of you.

Oh Lord, please have mercy on us. Deliver your church from the grip of the enemy. Expose the lies and deceptions of darkness and grant salvation to the unsaved. Not for our sake, but for Jesus Christ sake, open the eyes of your people and save us In Jesus Christ name. Amen!.

Oh Lord have mercy on athiests.They will always find a way to riggle away from accepting the truth.

Jesus Christ is the way

Praise the Lord!.

But some of them will come here and be saying it's fake. You can't fight the truth.

Self delusion is a decease.

Jesus Christ is the way!.

Riofidelio:
The problem here is cause by misinformed translators who thought they're interpreting the inspired writings but ended up confusing people. HELL~English =Sheol~Hebrew=Hades~Greek simply means GRAVE~simplified English. To help you grasp the concept you're asked "where was Adam before God created him on earth?" and "at death where did he go?" you've managed to fabricate uned theories about where he went after death but "where was Adam before creation?" Your fabrication has a hole so it's leaking as Lazarus who died was resurrected by Jesus. So if Lazarus's soul or spirit as you said has gone to heaven for rest or enjoyment what good has Jesus done for the guy by raising him for those murderers to start hunting for Lazarus again? You're quoting a parable of Jesus concerning Lazarus and the rich man to the hellfire doctrine, OK (1)Who was Lazarus and what exactly was the virtuous works of Lazarus or is abject poverty a criteria for heaven? (2) Who was the rich man and what evil did the he do to warrant going to hell or is it a sin to be rich? (3) between the rich man's table and the gate of his house how many yards because Jesus said Lazarus often DESIRE to BE FED by the crumbs falling from the rich man's table and at the same time Lazarus is always at his gates? (4) what type of dog will be licking the sour in his legs that can't be chased of by Lazarus who is still very much alive? (5) where was Abraham sitting before Lazarus was taken to his bosom? (6) how close is heaven from hell? Please if you can unravel this sacred secrets then your hellfire doctrine could make a little sense!

My dear stop lying!. Ahhh!. The Lazarus Jesus raised is different from the Lazarus in the story above. You don't even know the bible, and you just assume all manner of things to cover up your deceptions.

Please, stop blaming translation here. There are clear statement about hell fire. Some scriptures I gave above even mentioned flames. In the scripures below, both Jesus and James the apostle, clearly mentioned fire, Jesus Christ went further to say, the fire will be unquenchable. Then again, in the book of Revelation, we have lake of fire. How can you deny such obvious truth?.

Mark 9:45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

James 3:6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our , that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.

Adam began to exist on earth when God decided to create him. But Adam and you, and me and all mankind and the child that will be born tomorrow, all have been planned right from the foundation of the world. The choice we all will make is left for us. For instance, while we put a particular later date as the time of Jesus crucifixion, for God, the matter has already been concluded even before Adam was created. So the question, where was Adam before God created him, Adam was in God, God only formed the house (body) he came to dwell in. The real Adam is a spirit being and that came from God!. And all of us came from him, that's why his sins affected us even though we weren't born yet!. Where his spirit is now, I don't know. Whether Adam repented or not I don't know, so I can't tell where he is now. But I know from scriptures that after Jesus died, He went to preach to the spirits in prison. I gave you that age. So after death, the spirits of the dead continue to live somewhere, Adam must be somewhere, but I don't know where.

Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

How come God knew Jeremiah before He formed him in the belly?. Where was he that God knew him?.


Matthew 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Hebrews 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

1 Peter 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

We all were made by God from one stock which is Adam, Adam became corrupted by sin which affected all of us, more like a virus affecting all of us. Rather than throwing all of us away, God deviced a way to salvage and redeem us. That redemption was through Jesus Christ. Now anybody who doesn't get cleansed by the blood of Jesus Christ is automatically a waste, and it's by choice!, so no one can accuse God of being responsible for there being lost. I'm not going to go further here. I will not because of you, delve into deep knowledge that may confuse my young brothers and sisters. Since you've made up your mind to believe that the bible is a pagan doctrine, nothing I will say here will mean anything to you.

May the Lord open your eyes in Jesus name. Amen!

OneJ:

Primesky: was Adam existing in the spirit realm before God created him on earth? Where did Adam go when he died? Man is a soul. He is body (dust,flesh ) plus breathe of life,(spirit ). Gen2:7. James 2:26. Gen3:19, Eccl12:7. 3:19,20. Ps alm104:29. 146:3,4.
God gave man the revelation that Jesus Christ is the son of the living God. (Matt16:13-17. Rev1:1. John20:30,31. 1Cor11:3. John14:28. Mark 1:1.) It's not rocket science. Shalom.

Man is a Spirit that have a soul and dwells in a body. Adam and all who ever lived on this earth are spririt who dwelth in a fleshly body. As such after death, they continue to exist as spirit in a waiting place either in heaven or hell until the final day. For you and your colleague, whatever scripture I give that doesn't suit your believe, you call it pagan doctrine. What away to buy minds. Look at these scriptures below, perhaps they are pagan doctrines as well.

Luke 16:23 [b]And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

Luke 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

Luke 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

This story was told by Jesus himself!. Father Abraham who died long ago, is seen here active somewhere. The two new arrivals (rich man and Lazarus) we're clearly separated into waiting places based on the decisions they made when they were still alive in the body on earth. Yet, after the physical death, they continued to live. Is this one also a pagan doctrines from Jesus Christ?.


Deuteronomy 32:22 [b]For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.

Psalms 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.

Isaiah 5:14 Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.

Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Matthew 18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

Mark 9:45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

James 3:6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our , that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.

2 Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
[/b]
All through the bible, we have clear warnings and descriptions of hell, and who goes there. But you won't see this, instead you call it pagan doctrine, just to give yourself a false sense of ease. You will surely for all your decisions. You better repent.

If pastors are the ones instructing me, who then are the ones instructing you?.

Riofidelio:
I know it's a long time tradition spread abroad by the Antichrist and his agents,but my friend that's not what Christ taught people in the first century! You'll notice that you're unable to quote the scriptures effectively to back up the doctrine, well it's because the hellfire thing was cooked up by the church to instill fear in the minds of their congregants. Truthfully speaking there is nothing as such in God's mind, i don't know how to explain this to you but i'll try. Most of the translators believe in hellfire as they're either Catholics or Protestants but if you're truly interested in knowing the truth of the matter just get different translations and start comparing the verses. You'll be surprised to see things from another angle.

Thank God your cover has finally come off!. So you mean that both Catholics and protestants have all been deceived because they teach about hell fire?. You are the correct one?. What a lie you're spreading!. What truth and what other translation do I need?. It's clear you're not a Christian!.

And you're even telling lies on top of it. I gave you scriptures, and showed you what Jesus said himself. Instead of accepting your wrong, you called it pagan doctrine, even Jesus Christ Himself?. If the words of Jesus are pagan doctrine to you, what more can I tell you?.

You see the very words of Jesus Christ in the bible, and you call it pagan doctrine. You quote scriptures off key and say that's it. I only pity the young Christians here.

Please, if you're a Christian reading this, understand that Christianity in the world today has been bastadiced by the enemy into many factions, creed and doctrines. There are those who don't believe Jesus Christ is the son of God, yes, Christians they call themselves. There are those who don't believe in the trinity, there are those who don't believe in hell fire. There those who don't believe we shall go to heaven at last when Jesus comes for His own. The funny thing is, they all will quote the bible. Any surprises?, no, their shouldn't be. Charmers and cultists also quote the bible. The devil accurately quoted the bible while tempting Jesus Christ. This is the season of lies and deceptions. Be careful what you accept.

Hell fire exist and heaven exist. Period!

When we all leave this world, you will know whether hell fire exists or not.

Riofidelio:
Well if going by man's definition i can CHOOSE to agree with any theory i like, but going by the Bible (God's word) i'll say NO! Because according to the Bible man is a soul just like every other creatures on this planet and souls don't last forever if God didn't allow it(Ezekiel 18:4) and we're all having the same spirit which is the breath of life that's activating the body, whenever the breath or spirit stops functioning we drop dead just like every other creatures.(Psalms 146:3,4¦Ecclesiastes 3:19,20¦9:4-10)The only difference between man and beast is our God's given intellect to choose between right and wrong(image of God)that's all! The soul simply means the information you gathered in your brains:names,hobby,taste,specialisation and all other important info represents your soul but all will be active as long as the body lives, immediately the body stops functioning they're gradually deleted. The only hope of ing everything back depends on God's will and that's if you're not going to harm others, that's why Jesus constantly warns His followers to be careful of what they keep in their brains. Matthew 5:27,28¦ 6:19,20¦ 7:24-27

Please, people of God know the bible for yourselves, I don't understand what in the world is happening, even though Jesus said it. The fact that one is quoting the right scriptures doesn't make his/her assertions correct. Don't believe me if you will, but take hold of the bible, read it like never before, back to back as many times as possible, but ensure you have a solid relationship with God through Jesus Christ, that's the only way not to be confused or decieved. The trick and subtlety is too thin to easily discover. I rest my case on this here.