NewStats: 3,265,005 , 8,185,315 topics. Date: Friday, 13 June 2025 at 06:54 AM 1u5ny

Kobojunkie:

Where do we know Jesus Christ was on that day and the 2 days after that?

Haha, this man is a case study. Oga Jesus said the thief will be with him in paradise that day. How come you are now asking the whereabout of Jesus Christ after he died. I pity those wasting there time to argue with you cos as far I'm concerned, you are confusion pro max

SkyView01 forget that confusionist and drop another question, maybe I fit see small change hold body. I need your gift more than this baseless argument based on my condition, I believe others need it too cos this naija is hard now, to see food eat na wahala

Examiner set question for exam and Mark, others are busy bringing irrelevant arguments.

If you not cool with the answer, Go to court

Kobojunkie:
How do you know the thief was repentant? By which of God's standards do you judge him as a repentant thief? What was it he said that led you to believe him a repentant soul?

And recall that all Jesus Christ said in response to what your "repentant" thief said was, "Today, you shall be with me in paradise." How do you leap over that simple one-line to all you claim to believe in? Whereabouts in Scripture did you come up with the many additions to that one statement?

At the point of death on the cross, Jesus was both man and God and had ability to forgive sin. He even said so himself.

The standard of repentance I was basing my argument upon would be the following ;

" By grace are you saved, through faith, and not of yourself, it is the gift of God less any man should boast"

" Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved"

...And, as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness...

Salvation as a Christian is a very simple process and the Bible did not leave in the dark about the process.

When you are contrite and we may never be privy to other discussion Jesus had with the contrite thief, but the desire to be in heaven, Jesus's kindom and a cryout to the saviour to be ed and the subsequent response of jesus ethernally erased any doubt as to the state of mind of the thief at the point of interaction with Jesus.

1. He believed Jesus was a king.
2. He believed Jesud had a Kingdom.
3.He believed in life after death.
4. He cried for mercy in the only way he knew how to " me when you get to your kingdom"
5. Jesus's response further removes any doubt and show with certaity that

1. The thief had asked for forgiveness of sin

2. He had been forgiven and ready for paradise with Jesus after death.

, Jesus is God and he saw into the heart of the thief when the request was being made to be ed in Jesus's kingdom.

Skyview01:
■ You make a good argument but I would base like to shed more lights on my assumed conversion of the repentant thief . True, Jesus had had conversations with lots of people, some recorded in the Bible and other offline but there is no where in the Bible Jesus had told anyone "Today, thou shall be with me in paradise". To be with Christ after death, It would be in order to imply the thief asking for salvation and Jesus granting him his wishes.
■ Are you implying the thief was never saved, that he went on to paradise or heaven without salvation and went on to be with Jesus after death?
■ I am basing my bible verses on the KJV of the Bible.

1. The thief made a request. How and why did you come to conclude that Jesus Christ had to have been under some sort of obligation to grant him exactly that which he, the thief, requested?

2. There is no evidence of what transpired to the idea that the thief was saved — absolutely none.

3. There are no "bible" verses that propose salvation was handed, by Jesus Christ, to the thief on the cross. So why do you insist on believing that which was never explicitly stated— or even implied by Jesus Christ?

Kobojunkie:
1. The thief made a request. How and why did you come to conclude that Jesus Christ had to have been under some sort of obligation to grant him exactly that which he, the thief, requested?

2. There is no evidence of what transpired to the idea that the thief was saved — absolutely none.

3. There are no "bible" verses that propose salvation was handed, by Jesus Christ, to the thief on the cross. So why do you insist on believing that which was never explicitly stated— or even implied by Jesus Christ?

Why did Jesus tell him, "Today will be with me in paradise"?

Do you think an unrepentant sinner will be with Christ after death?
I am curious to understand your thought process and rationale for your argument.

Now, those were not my words and except you disagree with the Bible, those words were plain enough to a reasonable person to infer by a leap of logic that an act of repentance had infact occured.

Ab0bii:
SkyView01 forget that confusionist and drop another question, maybe I fit see small change hold body. I need your gift more than this baseless argument based on my condition, I believe others need it too cos this naija is hard now, to see food eat na wahala

No, Kobo is not a confusionist. I am actually enjoying the argument and very curious to understand his thought process for those verses and rationale for his claims.

Skyview01:
■ At the point of death on the cross, Jesus was both man and God had ability to forgive sin. He even said that himself.
■ The standard of repentance I was basing my argument upon would be the following ;
" By grace are you saved, through faith, and not of yourself, it is the gift of God less any man should boast" " Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" ...And, as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness... Salvation as a Christian is a very simple process and the Bible did not leave in the dark about the process.
■ When you are contrite and we may never be privy to other discussion Jesus had with the contrite thief, but the desire to be in heaven, Jesus's kindom and a cryout to the saviour to be ed and the subsequent response of jesus ethernally erased any doubt as to the state of mind of the thief at the point of interaction with Jesus.
1. He believed Jesus was a king.
2. He believed Jesud had a Kingdom.
3.He believed in life after death.
4. He cried for mercy in the only way he knew how to " me when you get to your kingdom"
5. Jesus's response further removes any doubt and show with certaity that

1. The thief had asked for forgiveness of sin
2. He had been forgiven and ready for paradise with Jesus after death.
■ , Jesus is God and he saw into the heart of the thief when the request was being made to be ed in Jesus's kingdom.

1. God can forgive sins but did Jesus Christ tell the thief that His sins had been forgiven Him as He had done on previous occasions with some others?

2. The standard of repentance preached by Jesus Christ is the same standard of Repentance preached by John the Baptist which states that one must be baptized by water(Born of water) AND then be baptized by the "Holy Spirit"(Born of Spirit) by Jesus Christ - Matthew 3 vs 7 - 11 & Mark 1 vs 1 - 8 & Luke 3 vs 1 - 18 & John 1 vs 19 - 28. Jesus Christ repeated this very message in John 3 vs 1 - 21 when He explained that unless a man is born of water AND born of Spirit He can't enter into the Kingdom of God. How did the thief of the cross meet up with this standard as first preached by John and then later carried on by Jesus Christ?

3. What you said here does not make any Scriptural sense. A "contrite" heart does not grant any man access to the Kingdom of God, let alone into God's Heaven at the end of the day. Again, Jesus Christ said that every man must be born again — no exemptions to the rule. Stating that this man was able to circumvent the rule as stated by Jesus Christ is akin to declaring Jesus Christ a Liar. Is that what you believe Him to be?

4. Is God a partial God? Does God change/bend His Law for some men? If yes, please where is your evidence of this?

Kobojunkie:
Jesus Christ didn't use the word "Paradise" but He made it explicitly clear that He would be in the grave for 3 days beginning from the day He was put on the cross. And what Jesus Christ said to the thief was, "This day you shall be in Paradise with me". Where do we know Jesus Christ was on that day and the 2 days after that?

John 1:1 In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God and the word was God.
14: And the word was made flesh and dwell among us.
The concept of the Holy Trinity nullifies your argument.

Today, thou shall meet me in Paradise.

Jesus is already in heaven, it's simply the thief that'll meet him there.

Skyview01:
■ Why did Jesus tell him, "Today will be with me in paradise"? Do you think an unrepentant sinner will be with Christ after death?
■ I am curious to understand your thought process and rationale for your argument. Now, those were not my words and except you disagree with the Bible, those words were plain enough to a reasonable person to infer by a leap of logic that an act of repentance had infact occured.

1. But, after death, Jesus Christ was in the grave for three days. He made this known before His death came. And everyone, including unrepentant sinners, ends up in the grave after they are dead, do they not?

2. Again, I keep highlighting the importance of the fact that Jesus, on more than one occasion, revealed exactly where He would be, and remain for 3 days after His death. So, when He told the man on the cross that He(the thief) would be with Him(Jesus Christ) that day in Paradise, connecting that to what Jesus Christ had previously stated should lead to concluding that Paradise meant the grave where Jesus Christ already told us that He would be that day and the days after.

As for why Jesus Christ said that to the man, well, if the thief was in the grave that day, he was spared the ordeal of hanging for several days on the cross before death finally came for him.

Kobojunkie:
1. God can forgive sins but did Jesus Christ tell the thief that His sins had been forgiven Him as He had done on previous occasions with some others?

2. The standard of repentance preached by Jesus Christ is the same standard of Repentance preached by John the Baptist which states that one must be baptized by water(Born of water) AND then be baptized by the "Holy Spirit"(Born of Spirit) by Jesus Christ - Matthew 3 vs 7 - 11 & Mark 1 vs 1 - 8 & Luke 3 vs 1 - 18 & John 1 vs 19 - 28. Jesus Christ repeated this very message in John 3 vs 1 - 21 when He explained that unless a man is born of water AND born of Spirit He can't enter into the Kingdom of God. How did the thief of the cross meet up with this standard as first preached by John and then later carried on by Jesus Christ?

3. What you said here does not make any Scriptural sense. A "contrite" heart does not grant any man access to the Kingdom of God, let alone into God's Heaven at the end of the day. Again, Jesus Christ said that every man must be born again — no exemptions to the rule. Stating that this man was able to circumvent the rule as stated by Jesus Christ is akin to declaring Jesus Christ a Liar. Is that what you believe Him to be?

4. Is God a partial God? Does God change/bend His Law for some men? If yes, please where is your evidence of this?

Thank you and i am beginning to get a little glimple into where you are coming from.

The Bible is divided into dispensations and as a Christian, the fundamental belief of scripture infallibility is sacrosanct.

You will have to believe the whole scripture is given by inspiration of God.

Time in the Bible is divided into dispensations and means and way of salvation differs between dispensations.

There was a time when the requirement was for the high priest to offer sacrifices for the remission of sin.

John the Baptist was just a forerunner whose duties was to held the coming of Christ and draw attention to Christ.

....Behold, the lamb of God which taketh away the sins of world.

Before I go on, do you believe in that verse

" By grace are you saved, not of works, not of yourself lest anyone should boast"

What are your thoughts on the above verse as it pertains to salvation?

OhGeeBee:
■ John 1:1 In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God and the word was God.
14: And the word was made flesh and dwell among us.
The concept of the Holy Trinity nullifies your argument.
■ Today, thou shall meet me in Paradise. Jesus is already in heaven, it's simply the thief that'll meet him there.

Your concept of Trinity is not even Scriptural to begin with.

2. Your declaration here contradicts Jesus Christ. You believe Jesus Christ is nothing but a liar. How? Well....

▢ You just canceled out what Jesus Christ said to His disciples about needing to first come back before He can then take them to be with Him.

1. Jesus said, “Don’t be troubled. Trust in God, and trust in me.
2 There are many rooms in my Father’s house. I would not tell you this if it were not true. I am going there to prepare a place for you.
3 After I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back. Then I will take you with me, so that you can be where I am.
4 You know the way to the place where I am going.” - John 14 vs 1 - 4

▢ In addition, you also canceled out what Jesus Christ said in Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46 & John 5 vs 19 - 29 about His needing to first return, and judge those in His flock before they can gain access into either Heaven or Hell.

Do you really believe Jesus Christ lied?

Kobojunkie:
1. But, after death, Jesus Christ was in the grave for three days. He made this known before His death came. And everyone, including unrepentant sinners, ends up in the grave after they are dead, do they not?

2. Again, I keep highlighting the importance of the fact that Jesus, on more than one occasion, revealed exactly where He would be, and remain for 3 days after His death. So, when He told the man on the cross that He(the thief) would be with Him(Jesus Christ) that day in Paradise, connecting that to what Jesus Christ had previously stated should lead to concluding that Paradise meant the grave where Jesus Christ already told us that He would be that day and the days after.

As for why Jesus Christ said that to the man, well, if the thief was in the grave that day, he was spared the ordeal of hanging for several days on the cross before death finally came for him.

I get your points now.

So just to summarize,

1.The thief was begging to be ed in Jesus's kingdom and nowhere in the Bible was the grave represented as Jesus's Kingdom.

2. All that Jesus offered to him was the grave.

The thief was going to end up in the grave anyways and no need for Jesus to have offered him that.

That is quite an interesting take and I must confess that in all the years of my Bible study, i had never heard of that perspective before. I will do more studies on that.

In your opinion, what happened to the thief after Jesus's three days in the grave?

"And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise"

That was the exact verse and verily was used for emphasis, why would Jesus emphasize the grave in response to the request of a dying man to be ed in Jesus's kingdom?

It dosen't jive by any measure of logic if we lean back on our chairs, take a deep breath and ponder over the import of that verse spoken in response to a specific request.

We will realize the thieve was surely headed for the grave eithet ways.

Skyview01:
■ Thank you and i am beginning to get a little glimple into where you are coming from. The Bible is divided into dispensations and as a Christian, the fundamental belief of scripture infallibility is sacrosanct.
■ You will have to believe the whole scripture is given by inspiration of God.
■ Time in the Bible is divided into dispensations and means and way of salvation differs between dispensations. There was a time when the requirement was for the high priest to offer sacrifices for the remission of sin. John the Baptist was just a forerunner whose duties was to held the coming of Christ and draw attention to Christ. ....Behold, the lamb of God which taketh away the sins of world.
■ Before I go on, do you believe in that verse " By grace are you saved, not of works, not of yourself lest anyone should boast" What are your thoughts on the above verse as it pertains to salvation?

1. Scripture isn't infallible! It contains the s of men and even of Satan himself, in addition to the Word out of God's mouth. Are the words of men and Satan infallible?

2. What does it mean to claim Scripture is inspired? What is the meaning of the word "Inspired"? Understand that and you get closer to the reality of Scripture and further away from the fictional ideas held to by the religious.

3.

4. Paul said that about the salvation offered to us by Jesus Christ explicitly from the curse of the Old Law of Moses — the condemnation of sin which is death. That salvation is obtained not by way of righteousness but through obedience to the baptism of Repentance which John preached and Jesus Christ reechoed in John 3 vs 1 - 21. What did Jesus Christ offer in that particular salvation package? Jesus Christ offered Eternal Life and citizenship in the Kingdom of God to all who would become born of water AND born of Spirit, and all of this in place of the curse of Death aka the condemnation of the sin of God's Old Law.

Note: that Jesus Christ never offered in that Salvation package described Jesus Christ did not offer forgiveness of sins nor Heaven.

Skyview01:
■ I get your points now. So just to summarize,
1.The thief was begging to be ed in Jesus's kingdom and nowhere in the Bible was the grave represented as Jesus's Kingdom.
2. All that Jesus offered to him was the grave.
The thief was going to end up in the grave anyways and no need for Jesus to have offered him that.
That is quite an interesting take and I must confess that in all the years of my Bible study, i had never heard of that perspective before. I will do more studies on that.
■ In your opinion, what happened to the thief after Jesus's three days in the grave?
■ "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise" That was the exact verse and verily was used for emphasis, why would Jesus emphasize the grave in response to the request of a dying man to be ed in Jesus's kingdom?
It dosen't jive by any measure of logic if we lean back on our chairs, take a deep breath and ponder over the import of that verse spoken in response to a specific request. We will realize the thieve was surely headed for the grave eithet ways.

1. The thief was probably not going to end up in the grave that same day. However, Jesus Christ likely had mercy on him and informed him, the thief, that he would die that same day. You say the thief was repentant but it is more possible that he was anxious, scared to death of the suffering that was possibly before him on the cross. Recall that the next day, the soldiers came to kill him only to find that he was already dead. They were shocked that Jesus Christ was already dead meaning they probably expected him to last a couple of days on the cross.

2. The disciples of Jesus Christ who we know were at least born-again are still sleeping in their graves waiting for Jesus Christ to return for them. So, since we have no record of the thief being born-again, it is highly likely he ceased to exist in the grave. But if, and this is a big if, he had been born-again even as he continued his life of crime, the thief would in that case be sleeping in the grave like the disciples awaiting Jesus Christ's return and finally judgement.

3. See #1. God is not obligated to give just anyone what they ask for. Recall, that God's love belongs only to those who obey His teachings and commandments. Everyone else outside of that instead has access to His mercy. A dying man who was probably racked with fear of the ordeal before him was probably granted a merciful death by Jesus Christ than the one that originally awaited him — that is what I think given all that is written.

Ab0bii:
■ Haha, this man is a case study. Oga Jesus said the thief will be with him in paradise that day. How come you are now asking the whereabout of Jesus Christ after he died. I pity those wasting there time to argue with you cos as far I'm concerned, you are confusion pro max

The whereabouts of Jesus Christ on that day tells us where the thief also was on that very day. This really isn't rocket science!

Kobojunkie:
Your concept of Trinity is not even Scriptural to begin with.

2. Your declaration here contradicts Jesus Christ. You believe Jesus Christ is nothing but a liar. How? Well....

▢ You just canceled out what Jesus Christ said to His disciples about needing to first come back before He can then take them to be with Him.

▢ In addition, you also canceled out what Jesus Christ said in Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46 & John 5 vs 19 - 29 about His needing to first return, and judge those in His flock before they can gain access into either Heaven or Hell.

Do you really believe Jesus Christ lied?

I was just smiling while reading your post.
So for your mind Jesus is with contractors building houses in heaven?
Jesus was simply telling them that he needs to complete his work of salvation as it is thorough him alone the pathway to heaven lies.
Lastly, dear brother the word of God cannot be interpreted carnally hence, we might become just like the Sadducees.
There's a part of the scripture that says "rightly dividing the word of truth" this simply means it's possible to misinterprete the word thinking you're rightly dividing it.

Shalom

OhGeeBee:
■ I was just smiling while reading your post. So for your mind Jesus is with contractors building houses in heaven? Jesus was simply telling them that he needs to complete his work of salvation as it is thorough him alone the pathway to heaven lies.
■ Lastly, dear brother the word of God cannot be interpreted carnally hence, we might become just like the Sadducees.
■ There's a part of the scripture that says "rightly dividing the word of truth" this simply means it's possible to misinterprete the word thinking you're rightly dividing it. Shalom

1. So you believe that Jesus Christ lied to His disciples when He said He would return and then take them with Him?

2. According to Jesus Christ, what the Pharisees and Sadducees did was they taught their very own doctrines and traditions— their theories and ideas, sort of like the special interpretations of your pastor mogs — in place of the actual teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ - Matthew 15 vs 1 - 14 & Mark 7 vs 1 - 13. They used God's name to propagate teachings that contradicted God's very own Word, kind of like what you are doing here when you ignore what is written to assert instead of what your pastors have told you or what you prefer.

3. What part of Scripture is that? Please be more specific so we dig into what is instead written.

Kobojunkie:
1. So you believe that Jesus Christ lied to His disciples when He said He would return and then take them with Him?

2. According to Jesus Christ, what the Pharisees and Sadducees did was they taught their very own doctrines and traditions— their theories and ideas, sort of like the special interpretations of your pastor mogs — in place of the actual teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ - Matthew 15 vs 1 - 14 & Mark 7 vs 1 - 13. They used God's name to propagate teachings that contradicted God's very own Word, kind of like what you are doing here when you ignore what is written to assert instead of what your pastors have told you or what you prefer.

3. What part of Scripture is that? Please be more specific so we dig into what is instead written.

Well...Seems that's what you've been dying to type

. ..... "Rightly dividing the word of truth"

Shalom!

OhGeeBee:
■ Well...Seems that's what you've been dying to type
■ . ..... "Rightly dividing the word of truth" Shalom!

I didn't write any part of Scripture or even the Gospel but you are free to assume that I did.

2. Where in scripture do you get this statement from? Let's start there to figure out if what is written directly contravenes Jesus Christ or if instead, it is your interpretation that does.

Kobojunkie:
I didn't write any part of Scripture or even the Gospel but you are free to assume that I did.

2. Where in scripture do you get this statement from? Let's start there to figure out if what is written directly contravenes Jesus Christ or if instead, it is your interpretation that does.

Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
2Timothy 2:14-19

You can read the whole chapter 2.

OhGeeBee:
■ Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
2Timothy 2:14-19

You can read the whole chapter 2.

So, your claim is that when Paul told Timothy to study the word what Paul meant was that Timothy "rightly divide" the word?

Kobojunkie:
So, your claim is that when Paul told Timothy to study the word what Paul meant was that Timothy "rightly divide" the word?

But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate.
Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

Revelations 2:14-16.

OhGeeBee:
Revelations 2:14-16.

Now you have lost me. just answer the question abeg!

Ab0bii:
Since I have know the Kobo moniker, he can make everything about the church to look controversial.

The op is right jare

That guy abi na lady needs serious help

@Skyview01, here's another way to consider the thief on the cross. This was a man who probably lived most all of his life in disobedience of the teachings and commandments of God — the Law of Moses. He probably had opportunity after opportunity to repent from his wicked ways but refused to do so. He maybe thought it would have been of no benefit to him to change from his wicked ways given the lust of his heart after the dividends of his lifestyle. You want to believe that while on the cross this man suddenly grew a conscience and became repentant. But who is to say it wasn't his fear of death that brought that on at that time? Does God give a to those who choose to repent out of fear of death?

Even murderers are known to cry out for forgiveness when faced with a firing squad. If men know not to take such cries seriously, why should we expect God to do that?

Kobojunkie:
@Skyview01, here's another way to consider the thief on the cross. This was a man who probably lived most all of his life in disobedience of the teachings and commandments of God — the Law of Moses. He probably had opportunity after opportunity to repent from his wicked ways but refused to do so. He maybe thought it would have been of no benefit to him to change from his wicked ways given the lust of his heart after the dividends of his lifestyle. You want to believe that while on the cross this man suddenly grew a conscience and became repentant. But who is to say it wasn't his fear of death that brought that on at that time? Does God give a to those who choose to repent out of fear of death?

Even murderers are known to cry out for forgiveness when faced with a firing squad. If men know not to take such cries seriously, why should we expect God to do that?

That is one way to look at it for sure. thanks